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Author	Topic:   D-NET
fredro Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 16:13          we have members running seti, and some doing rc5. are we going to divide up this computing power even more? did one of the other seti teams ask us to do this? have we ever heard of devide and conqeer? if we divide all of our (few) members up on different projects, we will get conqeered, for sure. this is my own oppinion and i would like your feedback. thankyou. IP: Logged
Pierce Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 16:55          I will run the distributed project that is the most efficient. Seti is horribly inefficient. RC5 tries hard and does a reasonable job. I like the sounds of what DCypher is trying to do. Here is a quote from the clients programmer. "You see, I hate to waste CPU clock cycles, so whatever techniques are necessary to get the most performance out of ALL cpus will be used for ALL our projects. I figure you folks donate your computing time, why waste it." That says enough for me to want to give my support. Pierce IP: Logged
fredro Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 17:28          [This message has been edited by fredro (edited November 10, 1999).] IP: Logged
Pierce Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 17:59          Look, I also do not want to offend anyone... but this is why I find SETI inefficient. It either runs all the time which impacts overall performance or it just runs as a screen saver. Other distributed projects use idle cpu clock cycles. Which means they are always active (unlike a screen saver), but only work during inactivity. For instance, while I am surfing the web it does nothing and gives me all of my computers power... I pause to read an article it kicks in and goes to work crunching... I start surfing again and it stops. See the difference yet? I admire what SETI is doing, and they have many supporters... More than they can even handle for that matter. For me this isn't about being on the No. 1 team, it is about exploring the possibilities of distributed computing. If SETI is satisfied at stagnating where it is than I say fine. I will look into those who want to push those possibilities further. That is what makes me happy. If finding those elusive aliens does it for you than SETI is your cause. If being on the No. 1 team is your thing then join Slashdot. Just kidding on that last one. Again, I mean no offense to anyone. Different strokes for different folks. Pierce IP: Logged
CASC member Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 18:17          I'm not gonna go on this but my thinking is about the same as Pierce. I think SETI allready has to many contributors than they originally intended to assemble. I haven't tried RC5 or any others as SETI just takes it all. I have read the whole site at D-Net and it really sounds a little more reasonable. I don't know if i'll completely switch or run both . John IP: Logged
Pierce Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 18:20          Oh, there is one other reason why some 3DNow people as well as myself are supporting DCypher. Those same guys bringing DCypher online are the same ones who brought us www.3DNow.org Pierce IP: Logged
fredro Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 18:26          pierce, what you say about efficiency makes sense, thanks for clearing that up, but noone has given me a answer to what your cpu cycles will be doing for the good of human nature. we obviously like the numbers and compitiveness, or we wouldnt be on a team. i would be crunching for myself, you would be crunching for yourself, ect. one of my many questions is, should we be a team doing this new project, or should we do it individually? will it benifit us in any way? is it just to see how fast our cpu is? are we just trying to see if we can get more hits on this website? i really would like some answers. we were just told dnet is going to be a surprise! its a surprise alright, no body explained anything, just a article saying, here it is. its up and running. before i donate my cpu`s to a project i want to know what cause its for. thanks for being patient and explaining these things to me, pierce. its nice to express my oppinion, and not get flamed for it, like you do at hwc. IP: Logged
Pierce Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 19:17          Well RC5-64 is an encryption method. The goal of the RC5 project is to crack an RC5-64 encrypted message through brute force (trying every possible key). RSA Labs has a $10,000 prize for whoever does it. So if your computer happens to be the one that finds the key you get $1,000. Another $1,000 goes to the team, $2,000 goes to those operating the RC5 project and the final $6,000 gets donated to a non-profit organization. After RC5 distributed.net intends to attack other encryption methods. DCypher's first project is attacking the CS-Cypher encryption. About the same thing RC5 is doing. The difference being that after CS-Cypher is cracked they intend to move on to more scientific oriented goals. As far as I can tell CS-Cypher is just something to get get things started until better projects can be found. The current projects of distributed.net and DCypher.net are not very benificial to mankind. The difference is that DCypher.net is looking to the future for projects that will make a difference. Each and everyone of these groups (SETI, distributed.net, DCypher.net, and others) has shown the the great benefits of harnessing the power of idle computers. Each and everyone one of them is a worthy cause. I do not want to pull you from SETI if you enjoy it. The reason there is alot of excitement here in the forums about DCypher is because of the involvement some of the 3DNow staff have in it. Hope this helps and does not confuse. Pierce IP: Logged
Pierce Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 19:20          Oh, by the way... fredo said "its nice to express my oppinion, and not get flamed for it, like you do at hwc." What is hwc? Pierce IP: Logged
fredro Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 19:31          hwc is hardwarecentral [url] http://www.hardwarecentral.com [url/] im a member of the dicussion forums there. [This message has been edited by fredro (edited November 01, 1999).] IP: Logged
Voriax Celeron Worshipper	posted November 01, 1999 19:49          Well I'll be continuing doing SETI (50 units now), regardless of the efficiency. The slight possibility of finding an ET is more attractive to me than 'cracking' some cypher. Btw, why are they calling those 'challenges'? The cypher *will* be cracked, sooner or later. Where's the challenge? Voriax IP: Logged
Pierce Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 20:19          Voriax To be honest with you I find both cracking encryption and searching radio waves to be a waste of time. Why do I do this then? Because I believe in the power of distributed computing. I know one day someone will put all this power to good use. In the mean time the competition is fun. Pierce IP: Logged
Pierce Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 21:16          Ouch, that was a rather harsh post fredo. All of us here believe in 3DNow, we just have different opinions on distributed computing efforts. Just because we all do not want to jump on the SETI bandwagon does not make our efforts a joke. I think you are a bit too fixated with SETI. www.3DNow.org was not created just to fuel a concentrated effort for SETI. It was created to fuel optimizations for 3DNow enabled processors. Pierce IP: Logged
Imitation Follower of Athlon	posted November 01, 1999 21:16          Yeh I agree dude. It does seem like a lost cause now. And like fredero said, with DCypher.net are we going to make another split.... Three different teams will kill us I reckon.... at least in Seti. We don't have enough members to do this. We're at the point in Seti where we're not making any ground. It seems like a dead thing. So it seems we all go Rc5 or DCypher. That's my opinion. If we want to make a difference... and show people what we can do.. er umm... and make some noise or something then we have to concentrate our efforts. Otherwise we might just fall apart. Perhaps..... And of course these are just my thoughts... no offense in any way. hehe. - Imi IP: Logged
Pieter Follower of Athlon	posted November 02, 1999 00:38          just seti for me! ------------------ Regards, Pieter :*) IP: Logged
Osiris Priest of Athlon	posted November 02, 1999 01:49          Okay folks, Listen up.. let me try and put this as simply as possible. Dcypher.net was not founded solely for hte purpsoes of having a www.3dnow.org team. We have other goals in mind. That said, Dcypher.net is going to exist. And as long as it exists a www.3dnow.org team will exist within it. You will have the choice of doing rc5, seti, or dcypher.net... there's plenty to go around. Fredro: The reason I call Seti in inefficient is because I can write a core that takes between 1/2 and 1/3 the time to do a full work unit.. yet SETI refuses to use it. Therefore they *are* wasting a lot of peoples time. However, that said if you want to run SETI, go ahead. Steve IP: Logged
Voriax Celeron Worshipper	posted November 02, 1999 04:09          A lively discussion for a change If you want to promote 3DNow then SETI would be the best place, imho. A small team like this has no chance to be in top 10 as long our members are using an average of 1 machine for SETI (or any other project). But as SETI has so big publicity value even with a lower ranking you'd be more 'visible' Of course who actually browses thru the team rankings except to check your own team and it's surrounding teams? As for our team being inactive...well...i'm sure a large bunch of people are inactive, but it's the same for most of the teams. If you keep watching Art Bell's WU count it raises very slowly, likely 95% of that team are inactive. Hmm..the above probably doesn't make sense.. But I'll promise I'll reconsider joining Dcypher when it finds another project than encryption cracking. And when my machine finds the ET signal I'll also promise to whine in the newspapers and in TV about the poor support of AMD's chips. Voriax (never purchased an Intel chip) IP: Logged
Akma Follower of Athlon	posted November 02, 1999 08:34          Seti can be dangerous to distributed computing efforts, 'cause when we find th ETs or better yet, they find us, their superior technology will render ours obsolete. Naturally they'll be giving us all their fancy techs which will help us to complete wipe the whole human race, unless of course, they'll do it on our behalf. On the other hand, the seti guys could be aliens themselves, they release a poor client and useless data to keep us from finding them and their attack fleet... What comes to the more serious aspects of running seti is that not all of us 'inactive' seti users do have a new shiny Athlon. I run seti very casually, more like 2/3, not 24/7. Then again I also run RC5, which is the "main thing" for me nowadays. RC5 may sound stupid as a project, but it gives us some comprehension how easy it is to crack cyphers by "brute force". The project also will meet success within the next few years. And, Team 3DNow! is in the daily Top100 in RC5. IP: Logged
Pieter Follower of Athlon	posted November 03, 1999 00:12          seti wasnt that to make 3DNow! more popular so developers would take notice ? High profiled crunching is needed? i mean that is something else then giving your comp something todo ? ------------------ Regards, Pieter :*) IP: Logged
Shoe Lace Follower of Athlon	posted November 03, 1999 02:07          My reasonfor favouring RC5 over SETI was the chance of a couple of thousand $$$$$. if i won that then i COULD buy myself a brand spanking new 1600MHz Athlon (or whatever they are upto by then) IP: Logged
Clint Strickland Follower of Athlon	posted November 03, 1999 17:48          Armin, I really admire your team spirit! I joined 3dnow! to compete with/for/against those that felt as I do. NON-Intel. If I have to compete against intel then I must have 3dnow! optimized code, which I see is not forth-coming for seti@home. Is 3dnow! just a pipe dream? I would like to a dist.comp. effort that really pushes my k6's. This is why I am leaning towards d.cypher. I feel they understand end-users concerns. And hope they act accordingly. Can someone ask JuBe to return my doors at his next pit stop? :0 WOOOOOSH! IP: Logged
Clint Strickland Follower of Athlon	posted November 03, 1999 18:10          ps, they are the red ones IP: Logged
fredro Follower of Athlon	posted November 09, 1999 08:38          i wonder why "thewarbird" left the team? (seti) IP: Logged
thewarbird Celeron Worshipper	posted November 09, 1999 17:29          I stopped running seti to run dcypher... Beings 3dnow is loosing leaps and bounds to #amiga, and will drop back at an even faster clip with people changing to dcypher, I moved my blocks back over to the university team I am the founder of to keep them in the top 100 just a tad longer... sorry. IP: Logged
Franklin A. Childers Celeron Worshipper	posted November 09, 1999 17:58          Good sound reasioning. But we will recover and move up. It will be a slow process but I will see it to the end. -Frank IP: Logged
CASC member Follower of Athlon	posted November 09, 1999 20:53          We can keep up a little pace we will hold position. There are more than 1,390,000 people doing seti (or so the stats say) so to even be in the top 50 teams i think is a great position. Myself with 1 computer i am running seti at night and during the day i am running Dnet. Dnet runs great compared to seti when your doin other stuff, like its not even there, thats cool, cudos to Steve for the program John IP: Logged
Jayden Follower of Athlon	posted November 09, 1999 21:41          I'm NEVER giving up the seti project. I know they are not using an efficient client, but the chance of my name being immortalized IF I find ET is worth that. Has this core that is 2x faster been released? Why isn't there a "hacked" version on an anon FTP server overseas somewhere if it has been written? I'd be doing this on my own even without team 3dnow. I agree with Fredero...I must use my "spare" CPU time for the good of mankind. That doesn't even mean that we will find ET in our lifetimes, but at least we will have tried. The other projects are great if you like that sort of thing though....they just don't do it for me. Do what you want, it's your CPU. IP: Logged
Imitation Follower of Athlon	posted November 10, 1999 05:46          Yeh well the Sprite adverts tell you to obey your thirst... so what do you do, obey your (their) thirst and drink Sprite or do you get a Coke out and drink that? Er... dumb. Should just say... Nike, er... AMD just do it! Well do it. IP: Logged
Armin High Priest of Athlon	posted November 10, 1999 08:34          You may have noticed I have not been neglecting SETI the last couple days ... did about 45 blocks, part on the www.3dnow.org team account, some on my own (which is somewhere in the lower regions of the top 300). I'm going to fade out one machine in favour of CSC as soon as the Linux client is available, though. IP: Logged
fredro Follower of Athlon	posted November 10, 1999 10:20          thanks for the help. we can always use a few more units. IP: Logged

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